unlined board.....help!!!
unlined board.....help!!!
Hey all!! I just got my first fretless a month ago. G&L L2000 with an unlined ebony board. I am having a difficult time adjusting. I sat down with my guitar player the other night and couldn't play anything in tune. Any suggestions on how I can line my fretboard to help with my transition. I new it would be hard.....but not this hard!! HELP
I love my G&L's
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FretLessSince68
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:29 am
- Location: On an Island, WA, USA
Troy,
Welcome to FretlessBass.com
I think that you made a good buying decision in the bass you have now. Many of us prefer the unlined fingerboard, I would avoid marking the fingerboard until you have spent a bit more time on it.
The best lesson I ever learned from my Dad was this, he said "Son, there's a technique to everything." You need to get your left hand technique down.
First I would find a local bass teacher who actually plays fretless. If one is not available then consider an upright bass teacher but let him/her know that you want to learn intonation (left hand technique) on the electric fretless.
What you need is to get the proper left hand positioning down cold. Practice scales until you are an expert.
I think that the fretless player needs to involve all of the left hand fingers in order to achieve good intonation. If one does not cultivate a position referenced left hand technique then it is more difficult.
So exactly what technique am I referring too? Well, there are several, depending on what scale form you are playing. For starters play a F major scale in the 1st position.
This major scale should have the familiar Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do sound.
In the following, an Open string is called the zero (0) position and the 1st position is equivalent to the 1st fret, etc. So the 7th position on the D string is an A note, equivalent to the 7th fret on that string.
F 1st position E string 1st finger
G 3rd position E string 4th finger
A Open
Bb 1st position A string 1st finger
C 3rd position A string 4th finger
D Open
E 2nd position D string 3rd finger (2nd finger also OK)
F 3rd position D string 4th finger
This is real easy and a good place to start. Play it ascending, then return to the lowest note the same way you came up. Not all scales are symmetrical ascending and descending. For now assume that they are.
Now move the scale up two semi tones and play a G major scale. This is G major from the 3rd position. This key has one sharp F#.
G 3rd position E string 2nd finger
A 4th position E string 4th finger
B 2nd position A string 1st finger
C 3rd position A string 2nd finger
D 5th position A string 4th finger
E 2nd position D string 1st finger
F# 4th position D string 3rd finger *this is the dumb finger and may need more work.
G 5th position D string 4th finger
Play this scale ascending and descending. You will probably feel some stretching in your left hand, this is normal, just don't over do it and injure yourself. Take a break if your hand/wrist heat up.
VERY IMPORTANT: When playing this type of scale, the left thumb should be placed opposite the 2nd finger, or root note, and stay there until you need to move to another position. Consistent thumb position is the vital key to good intonation on fretless. When one changes position the thumb position also changes and you MUST make your thumb movement crisp and precise. This means that you need to know where you are going and plant your thumb correctly BEFORE or simultaneously to playing the intended note.
This G major scale from 3rd position is what is called a movable scale, you can move it up or down the fingerboard as needed. Try playing the same scale in various keys. It should get physically easyer as you move up the fingerboard.
Take a look at this thread:
http://fretlessbass.com/viewtopic.php?t=99
Looking forward to learning if this advice is helpful. Please check back in soon.
Welcome to FretlessBass.com
I think that you made a good buying decision in the bass you have now. Many of us prefer the unlined fingerboard, I would avoid marking the fingerboard until you have spent a bit more time on it.
The best lesson I ever learned from my Dad was this, he said "Son, there's a technique to everything." You need to get your left hand technique down.
First I would find a local bass teacher who actually plays fretless. If one is not available then consider an upright bass teacher but let him/her know that you want to learn intonation (left hand technique) on the electric fretless.
What you need is to get the proper left hand positioning down cold. Practice scales until you are an expert.
I think that the fretless player needs to involve all of the left hand fingers in order to achieve good intonation. If one does not cultivate a position referenced left hand technique then it is more difficult.
So exactly what technique am I referring too? Well, there are several, depending on what scale form you are playing. For starters play a F major scale in the 1st position.
This major scale should have the familiar Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do sound.
In the following, an Open string is called the zero (0) position and the 1st position is equivalent to the 1st fret, etc. So the 7th position on the D string is an A note, equivalent to the 7th fret on that string.
F 1st position E string 1st finger
G 3rd position E string 4th finger
A Open
Bb 1st position A string 1st finger
C 3rd position A string 4th finger
D Open
E 2nd position D string 3rd finger (2nd finger also OK)
F 3rd position D string 4th finger
This is real easy and a good place to start. Play it ascending, then return to the lowest note the same way you came up. Not all scales are symmetrical ascending and descending. For now assume that they are.
Now move the scale up two semi tones and play a G major scale. This is G major from the 3rd position. This key has one sharp F#.
G 3rd position E string 2nd finger
A 4th position E string 4th finger
B 2nd position A string 1st finger
C 3rd position A string 2nd finger
D 5th position A string 4th finger
E 2nd position D string 1st finger
F# 4th position D string 3rd finger *this is the dumb finger and may need more work.
G 5th position D string 4th finger
Play this scale ascending and descending. You will probably feel some stretching in your left hand, this is normal, just don't over do it and injure yourself. Take a break if your hand/wrist heat up.
VERY IMPORTANT: When playing this type of scale, the left thumb should be placed opposite the 2nd finger, or root note, and stay there until you need to move to another position. Consistent thumb position is the vital key to good intonation on fretless. When one changes position the thumb position also changes and you MUST make your thumb movement crisp and precise. This means that you need to know where you are going and plant your thumb correctly BEFORE or simultaneously to playing the intended note.
This G major scale from 3rd position is what is called a movable scale, you can move it up or down the fingerboard as needed. Try playing the same scale in various keys. It should get physically easyer as you move up the fingerboard.
Take a look at this thread:
http://fretlessbass.com/viewtopic.php?t=99
Looking forward to learning if this advice is helpful. Please check back in soon.
Last edited by FretLessSince68 on Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
One good note makes my day.
I agree, that is very good advice
what i did is, I bought a book for double bass and i use to get to know the electric fretless fingerboard, it could be a good reference.
plus the scales advice was excellent, you could record the scales if you have a keyboard and play along with it.
scales, scales, scales.
what i did is, I bought a book for double bass and i use to get to know the electric fretless fingerboard, it could be a good reference.
plus the scales advice was excellent, you could record the scales if you have a keyboard and play along with it.
scales, scales, scales.
Fantastic advise guys!!! I do love the look of the unlined finger board.
I just have to practice, practice then practice somemore. I'm from a small town (about 10,000 people) and as far as I know we don't have too many fretless players....if any, besides me. Maybe I can start a trend.
Thanks again.
I just have to practice, practice then practice somemore. I'm from a small town (about 10,000 people) and as far as I know we don't have too many fretless players....if any, besides me. Maybe I can start a trend.
Thanks again.
I love my G&L's
I had little white dot stickers on one of mine for awhile, on the edge of the neck, not really visible to anyone else.
On the G&L I de-fretted, I very carefully painted dots on the edge at each fretline, again only visible to the player.
Good pick on the G&L. They really sing with no frets.
On the G&L I de-fretted, I very carefully painted dots on the edge at each fretline, again only visible to the player.
Good pick on the G&L. They really sing with no frets.
I wasn't like this when I got here.
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FretLessSince68
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:29 am
- Location: On an Island, WA, USA
One of your long term goals should be to get so good at intonation that people won't know you are playing a fretless unless you want them to.
A simple exercise that helps with ear training is to slide up to a note without going sharp, or being flat.
Sliding a note on the bass is called Glissando, or Gliss for short.
Let's say that you want to ear train on the G note, 1st octave above your open G string on the G string. So your target is the 12th position on the G string. This one is easy because there is a harmonic under it that you can play to confirm your accuracy.
First play the above mentioned harmonic, or play the target note on a keyboard or other pitch reference. Now memorize the sound of that reference note. Your goal is to match your played note with the reference note.
Place a finger of your left hand anywhere below the G on the G string, pluck the note and slide it up to the G, stopping where you think it should be. Now play the harmonic G (or reference note). Are they the same? If not, repeat until you improve.
You can use this exercise with any note on any string. You should have a keyboard or other pitch reference available for those notes without harmonic nodes.
Now try F# on the same string. A little harder isn't it.
If you don't have a keyboard or pitch pipe, just concentrate on those locations that are also harmonic nodes. The harmonic note will not always be the same as your target but still useful as feedback that your ear is on or off.
For those notes that do not have good natural harmonic nodes under them (such as F# on the G string) you can use your relative scalar sense to determine if you are on pitch or not. In a major scale F# is to G as Ti is to Do (Soffeggio). So you can "hear" if the note you are playing makes sense in RELATIONSHIP to a scale provided you know what the various scales sound like. This means that to develop this quality you will also need to be familiar with a vocabulary of scales and learn a bit of harmony.
Locating the natural harmonic nodes is a separate subject involving something called the overtone series. The main harmonic nodes useful for this exercise are at these positions:
5th 7th 9th 12th 17th and 19th positions.
There are many more but these should be enough for the purpose intended.
For the fretless player, harmonics are your friend. When a song is called, you can quietly play the harmonic over the position you need to confirm that the first note you play will be intonated correctly.
Don't forget the importance of left hand thumb positioning.
A simple exercise that helps with ear training is to slide up to a note without going sharp, or being flat.
Sliding a note on the bass is called Glissando, or Gliss for short.
Let's say that you want to ear train on the G note, 1st octave above your open G string on the G string. So your target is the 12th position on the G string. This one is easy because there is a harmonic under it that you can play to confirm your accuracy.
First play the above mentioned harmonic, or play the target note on a keyboard or other pitch reference. Now memorize the sound of that reference note. Your goal is to match your played note with the reference note.
Place a finger of your left hand anywhere below the G on the G string, pluck the note and slide it up to the G, stopping where you think it should be. Now play the harmonic G (or reference note). Are they the same? If not, repeat until you improve.
You can use this exercise with any note on any string. You should have a keyboard or other pitch reference available for those notes without harmonic nodes.
Now try F# on the same string. A little harder isn't it.
If you don't have a keyboard or pitch pipe, just concentrate on those locations that are also harmonic nodes. The harmonic note will not always be the same as your target but still useful as feedback that your ear is on or off.
For those notes that do not have good natural harmonic nodes under them (such as F# on the G string) you can use your relative scalar sense to determine if you are on pitch or not. In a major scale F# is to G as Ti is to Do (Soffeggio). So you can "hear" if the note you are playing makes sense in RELATIONSHIP to a scale provided you know what the various scales sound like. This means that to develop this quality you will also need to be familiar with a vocabulary of scales and learn a bit of harmony.
Locating the natural harmonic nodes is a separate subject involving something called the overtone series. The main harmonic nodes useful for this exercise are at these positions:
5th 7th 9th 12th 17th and 19th positions.
There are many more but these should be enough for the purpose intended.
For the fretless player, harmonics are your friend. When a song is called, you can quietly play the harmonic over the position you need to confirm that the first note you play will be intonated correctly.
Don't forget the importance of left hand thumb positioning.
One good note makes my day.