Fretless Jazz EQ and tone settings

[JV]

I know there is no right or wrong way of achieving a good fretless tone, it’s down to the individual, but as a general rule how should I EQ my bass and amp to get the best tone? I’m using a standard Fender Jazz fretless with flatwound strings and a Trace Elliot combo. How do you recommend setting the bass pickup and tone controls, and amp EQ for both an upright tone and then a more modern ‘singing’ fretless tone.

Thanks,

[FretLessSince68]

For Upright Tone from a Fender: Forgettaboudit

But you can get a fair approximation. Boost the low end to get some thud. Cut out what ever does not sound like a URB.

Some guys use black nylon wrapped strings to get a closer approximation of that sound.

Search this site for older topics on the subject of making a fretless bass sound like a Upright.

A big part of approximation URB sound is thinking like one.

For getting a modern singing tone:

I assume it is something similar to Jacos' stellar tone you are seeking.

Roundwound strings are important, I believe he used RotoSound RS66.
He also coated his fingerboard. He used the bridge P/U almost exclusively. He also used an amp with a distinctive sound so you will have to experiment with yours to see if you can get the right amount of "honk" out of it.

Search this site for older topics on the subject of tone. There should be some good input for you to mull over.

[RichmanRush]

FS68 is right on the money.

99.9% of the time, I'm going for Jaco tone, but when I tinker around to go for a more uprighty sound, I generally either go with both pickups, or the neck pickup (depends on the situation), and I'll pluck over the neck pickup, or even pluck over the neck. I've also heard of bassists putting something under the strings (cloth/foam) at the bridge to dampen the strings and to halt the sustain. I've found with all or some of these techniques, even with round wounds, you can get a passable upright sound. But obviously, to sound like an upright you'll need an upright, there's just no mistaking it.

The Jaco tone, for me, is all bridge pickup, round wound strings (currently using Dean Markley Nickel Plated Blue Steels), and plucking nearer the bridge pickup or over it depending on the bass.

I keep the cut/boost EQ on my bass completely flat unless I have to adjust for the room, and on my amp I generally boost the mids. The EQ on my amp looks like a very subtle frown, though EQing is going to be different for everyone. Or sometimes I just turn the EQ on my amp off (aka: flat). Though I do have a bass and mid knob on there as well that are at about 2 o'clock (I know, that doesn't really help), but that are essentially boosted. EQ is just one of those things you have to sit and tinker with for hours, days, weeks, months, years... you get the picture. But a good place to start is to start flat, and work with the mids, at least that's how I undertook my EQ project.

Lastly, the fingers. Don't dig in. Play lightly with both fretting and plucking hands. That was my biggest mistake when I first starting playing bass.

I hope I helped in some way, but as you know, there is no real answer. My perfect tone and perfect settings won't please everyone. But these are the things I use.

[FretLessSince68]

I agree with all that RichmanRush says except the part about digging in. If you take a look at Jacos' hands in his videos you will notice he had hands like iron. Many of the great old school bassists such as James Jamerson, Monk Montgomery, Charlie Mingus, Joe Osborn, also used a lot of right hand strength.

How much right hand strength the fretless player uses depends on several factors, personal style being the most important. After that the set-up of your instrument dictates to a certain extent how much right hand strength you use. If you use low tension strings (black clad or Thomastic brand) then the string craps out early and limits how much energy you can put into it.

As RichmanRush said, playing near the bridge help gets the Jaco tone but you will notice that it is harder on the fingers until you build up those calluses. It takes more right hand strength to play near the bridge to get a given output level. Or put another way, it's physically easier to sound louder if you pluck more towards the neck.

More modern players may prefer to use less right hand strength and it is a valid and important addition to the arsenal of technique. The Gary Willis "Ramp" as seen on his signature Ibanez bass helps to control right hand strength.

It is possible to rip ones right hand calluses off if you use too much strength, plus using excessive strength slows you down. Linebacker vs. Quarterback type idea. Personally I use a wide range of right hand strength depending on the situation. But never so much that I am abusing either my hands or the instrument.

Excessive left hand strength is completely destructive. Carpal tunnel syndrome, nerve pain under fingertip pads, premature fingerboard wear, slow technique, lack of finesse, all come from too much left hand pressure.

[FretLessSince68]

BTW, if you are wondering why we are discussing digging in and right hand strength in a tone topic...

Jaco said something similar to... "Tone comes from the fingers, and chicken grease."

[JV]

Thanks for the replies.

The mids on my amp are at 400 hz, and if I engage the mid shift they are at 1 khz. I also use an MXR M80 when DI’ing and the mids on that are at 850 hz. Which mid frequency work best on a passive fretless?

[FretLessSince68]

Well...This is a personal taste type of question.

Suppose I ask you how much salt I should put on my food?

I can say that the Mwah sound seems to live around 700Hz.

1000Hz is probably too high to be useful for my instrument/ears, although may be used as an attenuator if 1KHz is a problem.

850Hz barely useful

700Hz is in the zone

500 - 400Hz is the mid-bass scoop region that slap players like. Usually used as a low mid-cut.

300 - 250Hz is a useful high bass region

The frequencies below 250Hz become increasingly important and critical to your playing situations. Live rooms are each different and have different problems that may need attention in these regions.

I would suggest that you borrow (or purchase) a parametric equalizer and patch your bass through it. Master this device and you will gain a better understanding of what each frequency zone on your instrument sounds like, and how it contributes to your sound.

At first just use one filter element to sweep through the frequencies. Later identify the frequencies that your ear is seeking. Finally, use multiple filters to create a tone map that you like.

Remember, subtractive EQ is often better than additive.

Back on the left hand pressure subject:

The amount of left hand pressure you use also contributes to the Mwah sound, so is important regarding tone. Too little pressure and you get less sustain and less Mwah. More pressure gets more sustain and a better Mwah. Too much pressure does not improve Mwah and will kill your hand.

[RichmanRush]

Thanks for adding to the digging in part FS68. For me, the digging in part wasn't so much a tone thing as it was a technique thing, but I did notice my overall tone is better (perhaps more consistent?). My right hand (plucking hand) was becoming more of a finger slap when playing at med-fast tempos, or when I thought I should play harder to hear myself over the guitar/drums, instead of turning up the amp or bass volume. And I was cramping up and getting fatigued before the first chorus of the first tune. Not good at a gig, let me tell you! LOL. But some advice given to me was to lighten up my technique and overall attack and no more fatigue and definitely no more bloody finger tips. I still do it when I need to play a difficult fast run, but it's always a work in progress this technique stuff


One last thing, and maybe FS68 can add to it, is EQ will also help you out in the 'mix'. Boosting the lower frequencies will make your sound more 'boomy' where as boosting mids tend to help you cut through. Again, that really depends on who/what is going on in the band. You may want more bottom end on one song, and cut through on another.

So much knowledge to be gained here. Keep the questions (and answers) coming!

[FretLessSince68]

For us old guys, the cure for lack of calluses and endurance was known as getting a steady gig where you played six nights a week for about five hours per night. This is part of what the word chops means.

I did that for about twenty years before the scene died out.

Unfortunately, most of those gigs are gone today so all I can advise is play as much as you can.

In the modern world this is known a work hardening.

[redbeardred]

this thread reminded me of a bass builder who worked on getting the upright tone out of an electric.

the three ajustment he found were a thicker rosewood board

angled bridge w/ string through body

and squared frets...but he does frettless

here's a link if anybody want's to look him up

http://www.dreamstreamentertainment.com/custbass.html