Hi,
Lurker posting for the first time.
I'm pretty well stumped on setting up my bass to get a nice growl. I bought it used, its a Carvin 4 string. No idea what the model is, it doesn't say, but I have an email in to Carvin trying to find out. It seems like a nice bass, I think its neck-through, but not sure, ebony fingerboard, Sperzel tuners, Wilkinson bridge. I don't know what kind of wood it's made of.
I've tried roundwounds, flatwounds and halfrounds. The flatwounds have provided the best growl so far, to my surprise. I expected the roundwounds to be best.
I have tweaked the neck and saddles every which way. The neck is almost flat - about 1 mm string clearance when pressed at the end of the fingerboard and the second fret (if there was one). String height at the nut is about 1 mm. Saddles are very low. I dropped them to the point of string rattle, then raised them just a tad. I get a moderate growl on notes around the middle of the fingerboard, especially on the G and D strings.
I was in Guitar Center the other day and played some cheap fretless they had. The action was uncomfortably high with ridiculously big neck relief and the thing snarled like an angry terrier. And that was just acoustically, without plugging it in. How come I can't get mine to sound like that?
Could it be that, for some reason, this bass just won't growl? Something to do with the wood or something?
I'd appreciate any tips. Maybe I'm missing something? I'm willing to keep trying, but I'm also open to someone recommending a good fretless tech in the LA area or even better, the Inland Empire of Southern Cal.
Thanks in advance,
Dave
Setup or give up
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FretLessSince68
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:29 am
- Location: On an Island, WA, USA
It sounds like you are doing your set-up correctly.
In my experience, neck through fretless basses tend to have a less audible growl because that construction provides very good fundamental response and outstanding high frequency tone. Meaning that the massive low end sound and bright upper end sound obscures frequencies in the region fretless players need for mwah. Having said that, neck through basses are still great axes and can sound great for fretless but I just happen to think that they are better suited for the fretted sound where massive bass and brilliant highs are desirable.
Look at the back of your bass, are there screws or bolts holding the neck into a neck pocket, or is it a smooth one piece affair. If it smooth with no joins, screws or bolts holding the neck to the body then it is probably a neck through body axe. That means the the wood of the neck runs continuously from the headstock all the way to the end of the body where the bridge is located. This construction unifies the whole of the instrument and facilitates a big sound with lots of low end and high end.
On the other hand, a bolt on neck will have screws or bolts that hold the neck to the body. The bolt on neck joint does not have the integrity of a through neck so the transmission of vibrations from neck to body is quite different from an axe where the neck and body are united.
Tone woods are important too. If your bass is all maple it will have a high resonant frequency that is not conducive to growl/mwah, but absolutely fabulous for metal. So thwonk on it with your knuckles and listen to how it sounds as compared to other basses.
As fretless players many of us desire a less massive sounding low end that emphasizes the upper bass and lower middle range voice of the instrument. The brilliant high end is also usually not needed either because the mwah sound is like voice and gets edgy if there is too much high frequency content.
Also, what kind of strings did this other bass have installed. If it has round wounds then it's not an even comparison. Rounds do generally provide more growl/mwah. I can't explain why your bass seems to have better growl with flats except to say that I use flats and get decent growl but another instrument with rounds installed mwahs even more.
Electronics play an important role too, try using only the bridge P/U.
Try some EQ experimentation. Reduce the lows below 80Hz - 100Hz, boost the low mids 300Hz - 700Hz, and reduce the highs above 4K Hz. If you can plug into a multfilter parametric EQ it will help you zero in on those frequencies you want to demphasize. Then work on intensifying the frequencies you think need to be boosted to get a better growl, often centered around 700Hz. Remember subtractive EQ usually will get closer to where you want to go with fewer filters at work.
Carvins neck throughs are good instruments but many fretless players prefer bolt-on necks due to their tonal peak in the upper bass region rather than the full range sound of a through body.
Please come back with your observations.
In my experience, neck through fretless basses tend to have a less audible growl because that construction provides very good fundamental response and outstanding high frequency tone. Meaning that the massive low end sound and bright upper end sound obscures frequencies in the region fretless players need for mwah. Having said that, neck through basses are still great axes and can sound great for fretless but I just happen to think that they are better suited for the fretted sound where massive bass and brilliant highs are desirable.
Look at the back of your bass, are there screws or bolts holding the neck into a neck pocket, or is it a smooth one piece affair. If it smooth with no joins, screws or bolts holding the neck to the body then it is probably a neck through body axe. That means the the wood of the neck runs continuously from the headstock all the way to the end of the body where the bridge is located. This construction unifies the whole of the instrument and facilitates a big sound with lots of low end and high end.
On the other hand, a bolt on neck will have screws or bolts that hold the neck to the body. The bolt on neck joint does not have the integrity of a through neck so the transmission of vibrations from neck to body is quite different from an axe where the neck and body are united.
Tone woods are important too. If your bass is all maple it will have a high resonant frequency that is not conducive to growl/mwah, but absolutely fabulous for metal. So thwonk on it with your knuckles and listen to how it sounds as compared to other basses.
As fretless players many of us desire a less massive sounding low end that emphasizes the upper bass and lower middle range voice of the instrument. The brilliant high end is also usually not needed either because the mwah sound is like voice and gets edgy if there is too much high frequency content.
Also, what kind of strings did this other bass have installed. If it has round wounds then it's not an even comparison. Rounds do generally provide more growl/mwah. I can't explain why your bass seems to have better growl with flats except to say that I use flats and get decent growl but another instrument with rounds installed mwahs even more.
Electronics play an important role too, try using only the bridge P/U.
Try some EQ experimentation. Reduce the lows below 80Hz - 100Hz, boost the low mids 300Hz - 700Hz, and reduce the highs above 4K Hz. If you can plug into a multfilter parametric EQ it will help you zero in on those frequencies you want to demphasize. Then work on intensifying the frequencies you think need to be boosted to get a better growl, often centered around 700Hz. Remember subtractive EQ usually will get closer to where you want to go with fewer filters at work.
Carvins neck throughs are good instruments but many fretless players prefer bolt-on necks due to their tonal peak in the upper bass region rather than the full range sound of a through body.
Please come back with your observations.
One good note makes my day.
Still haven't heard from Carvin. Hoping that if I can find the model number, I can learn more about the bass, such as tonewood.
The bass is all gloss black with an ebony fingerboard. Looks great - the only thing that isn't black is the Carvin logo. But the finish is opaque, can't see any grain pattern or anything. That also makes it hard to be really sure about the neck. I'm 90% sure it's neck-through, but I suppose it could be a glued in neck with the joint sanded smooth. If so, they did a great job - there is no obvious joint. But I think it's a neck-through.
I pulled the backplate to see if I could get a peek at some unfinished wood, but it's beatifully shielded with foil. The only place I could see the wood was in the little truss rod pocket on the headstock. My guess is maple. Seems very hard and has a bit of an amber color. Not enough wood exposed to get any idea of grain pattern.
I don't remember anything about the bass at Guitar Center, except it had an exceptional growl and a terrible setup job.
I do use the bridge pickup when I want to bring out some mwah.
Maybe I'll try roundwounds again. I've tweaked it a lot since I put the flatwounds on. I do enjoy the feel of the flatwounds; feels more like my upright.
The bass is all gloss black with an ebony fingerboard. Looks great - the only thing that isn't black is the Carvin logo. But the finish is opaque, can't see any grain pattern or anything. That also makes it hard to be really sure about the neck. I'm 90% sure it's neck-through, but I suppose it could be a glued in neck with the joint sanded smooth. If so, they did a great job - there is no obvious joint. But I think it's a neck-through.
I pulled the backplate to see if I could get a peek at some unfinished wood, but it's beatifully shielded with foil. The only place I could see the wood was in the little truss rod pocket on the headstock. My guess is maple. Seems very hard and has a bit of an amber color. Not enough wood exposed to get any idea of grain pattern.
I don't remember anything about the bass at Guitar Center, except it had an exceptional growl and a terrible setup job.
I do use the bridge pickup when I want to bring out some mwah.
Maybe I'll try roundwounds again. I've tweaked it a lot since I put the flatwounds on. I do enjoy the feel of the flatwounds; feels more like my upright.
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RichmanRush
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:45 pm
Definitely listen to FS68, he knows his stuff!
I've played a few Carvin fretlesses and they are wonderfully built instruments, but the shop I was at had flats on em, so I couldn't gauge the tone. Also not being familiar with their electronics and the amp I was using I couldn't get a good tweak on it. But it played beautifully.
One thing I've read over and over about Carvin's is their transparency. They don't have a definitive sound but that still shouldn't stop the instrument from growling. I have a Schecter neckthrough, mahogany body, bubinga veneer, maple/walnut neck and rosewood fingerboard (EMG HZ pickups/pre, round wound strings) and I dig the growl I get out of her. It's there, you just have to find it.
I also suggest going back to rounds if you want a good growl. There are many factors affecting the tone, and I'm not a tone guru, but as FS68 says, a lot of experimenting will be needed.
I've played a few Carvin fretlesses and they are wonderfully built instruments, but the shop I was at had flats on em, so I couldn't gauge the tone. Also not being familiar with their electronics and the amp I was using I couldn't get a good tweak on it. But it played beautifully.
One thing I've read over and over about Carvin's is their transparency. They don't have a definitive sound but that still shouldn't stop the instrument from growling. I have a Schecter neckthrough, mahogany body, bubinga veneer, maple/walnut neck and rosewood fingerboard (EMG HZ pickups/pre, round wound strings) and I dig the growl I get out of her. It's there, you just have to find it.
I also suggest going back to rounds if you want a good growl. There are many factors affecting the tone, and I'm not a tone guru, but as FS68 says, a lot of experimenting will be needed.