www.FretlessBass.com

As we all know, a great fretless is not just a fretted bass with the frets removed. There is much more to it.

I would like to see your opinions on any or all of these subjects:

Scale Length
Fingerboard Radius
Fingerboard materials - coatings, woods
Side markers and Lines
Neck construction materials
Neckthrough vs. Bolt-on vs. Neck-set
Action and Setup
Pickups and P/U location.
Electronics
Body Tonewoods and body construction
Finish - as it may affect tone.
Strings (keep it limited to type, this is not a string thread. pls.)
Craftsmanship

I would also like to see some mention of great fretless basses of the past and present, and mention of the makers.

If you want to go into comprehensive detail on a particular aspect, please create a new thread. This one is more of an overview of the various aspects that contribute to making a great fretless bass.

Feel free to add to the list.

No contributors yet so I'll start things off. These are my personal preferences.

Scale Length - 35" I like the extra tension, timbre.
Fingerboard Radius - depends on number of strings, with four a small radius is fine. With the seven string I want a much flatter board.
Fingerboard materials - coatings, woods - I like a very hard fingerboard for any bass that wants to Mwah and wears roundwound strings. Phenolic, polyurethane, epoxy, all work well. Ebony fingerboards are fantastically musical but I wouldn't put roundwounds on one unless willing to resurface every so often. A hard straight fingerboard, along with low action, pretty much defines Mwah. I cut my nuts quite low, pretty much as low as possible without being too low.
Side markers and Lines - Unlined with side markers. Side Markers are very important to proper intonation on fretless, these should be exactly on the position lines and not in between "frets" as found on fretted instruments. The 12th position marker should actually be two markers, one each exactly on the 11th and 12th. Some necks have two markers near the 12th position which make playing in the 11th and 13th position difficult. If using a six or seven string fretless, and playing in the higher positions and/or playing triple stops, position lines come in REAL handy. It's not about being cool, it's about playing on pitch. If I were having a custom bass made, I would order position lines that were nearly the same color as the rest of the fingerboard. That way I could use them when needed, but they would not stand out.
Neck construction materials - For a Fender type I like a one piece big fat P neck with Ebony board. Graphite necks are excellent except one needs to deal with the higher resonant frequency (see electronics). Multi laminate Maple/Purpleheart (or similar) ala Alembic, Conklin, etc. are great for the big wide necks. Sound great too. More than one tension rod is an "as needed" concept.
Neckthrough vs. Bolt-on vs. Neck-set - I prefer bolt-on for fretless, the neckthroughs have too big a bottom for my taste. I like the low middle freqs.
String Pull - The string line as it extends beyond the nut towards the machine heads viewed from above the fingerboard should be a straight line. Some basses, usually with paddle type heads, with thier widely separated machine heads cause the string pull to angle outwards at a tangent. Straight string pull is better.
String Break - When viewed from the side, the angle of the strings going over the nut is called the break angle. If the bass has insufficient break angle there is not enough downward force on the nut (by the strings) to get the best tone. Adequate break angle contributes to transferrance of string vibration into the neck.
Action and Setup - Low and flat with 19mm (3/4") string spacing.
Pickups and P/U location. - The Fender Jazz bridge P/U coil is placed 1/16 of scale length from the bridge saddle. This is a magic position that Leo discovered. For growly fretless tone, I like a bridge position and a sweet spot, but not a neck position P/U. A piezo is nice if you want to get a more URB tone. I like Bartolini's. Any quality P/U will probably be an improvement over a Lo-Fi mass produced unit. You can always turn down the treble to get rid of it, but treble cannot be boosted if it is not there in the first place, all you will get is noise.
Electronics - I swear by the John East onboard preamps for fretless. Good sound can be obtained with a passive rig too but you don't have much tone variation potential.
Body Tonewoods and body construction - This is a deep and subjective topic. I tend to prefer mellow woods for straight ahead jazz, and brighter woods such as Ash or Maple for other types of music. I don't like Basswood, too soft. Basically from mellow to bright... Basswood, Poplar, Mahogany, Alder, Ash, Maple. The exotic woods are beyond my knowledge but most run on the bright side. Body construction comes in two main styles, a slab, or a box. Boxes are too reactive (IMO) and feedback except at low volume. Slabs with tone chambers are strange. I did the math and they can't possibly be acoustically effective, so I suspect that the extensive routing weakens the body and you get greater flexing (induction) of the body in response to string vibrations. For slabs with a laminated top, you should know that these are largely considered to be for appearance if 1/4" or less in thickness. A luthier would probably have some good input on this subject.
Finish - as it may affect tone. - Some players swear that a heavy finish dampens tone, and I agree that it is likely, however my Modulus has a heavy finish and has tone for days.
Strings - Since I am fortunate to have many fretless basses, I keep them setup according to my ideas of how the bass wants to sing. I put coated roundwounds on the phenolic fingerboard, flatwound or groundwound on the wood boards, and anything that sounds good on the coated boards. I do like like groundwounds, a great compromise.
Craftsmanship - There is no substitute for the personal touch of a qualified maker. I do believe that there is some sort of energy in a great musical instrument that an assembly line does not impart. I also believe that a factory built axe can acquire soul from being played and cared for.

One thing not mentioned is bridge construction. I like cast bridges, mainly for their precision adjustments, I also like the feel and appearance.

My first fretless was an Ampeg AUB-1 that I bought new in 1968, perhaps THE classic fretless, although not fantastic by modern standards, they did get many factors correct. This was my working axe for many years.

Jaco did what he did with a nearly stock Fender (except for fretless conversion), so it is not the axe, rather the player that makes an axe truely great.

Howdy - thanks for the knowledge! As a fretless newbie, I am learning many "new" ideas.....you're passionate about the Bass. Well, me too. It's still fun after all these years, and you reinforce the notion that the cool guys play Bass. "yer cool when ya don't know it, when ya know it then ya ain't" (Edgar Winter) I look forward to more of your comments. I'd throw in, but I don't have enough knowledge to hold me back. (SoDak humor)
I will say - that slinky fretless neck makes my old basses seem stodgy. For now, I'm playing the new Squier retro "modified" Jazz fretless, and it is a darn nice unit. Sure, it's a Jaco on the cheap, but it drew me in. Too pretty, and BassPlayer's review was complimentary.
So, my technical comments - the Duncan designed pickups give a unique, juiced-up smooth tone. Not as harsh as my other J's, not as barky. Playin a fifth sounds like a sitar. Very cool. Structurally, I can see the neck has a slight twist, but it's liveable for my meager chops. Tuners are solid - these make my Bass fun and playable for me.
I hope to work up to a big-time fretless, and I am interested to hear your details, on what it might be. Thank you for sharing! PEACE, happy new year................

FretLessSince68, I'm amazed by your great knowledge about everything concerning fretless bass!
Here's some of my favorites aspects concerning fretless bass: I prefer lined fingerboards, so I can be sure to be in correct pitch( I started playing bass 11 years ago, but I picked up fretless seriously just one year ago); my fretless has an ebony fingerboard and I like it, great sound!
I like a low action, but not too low, so that my low B string won't loose power.
If something else comes to my mind I'll post as soon as possible.
Cheers!

Ok, this is my preference:

Scale Length: 34"
Fingerboard Radius: 9.5"
Fingerboard materials - coatings, woods: Rosewood(uncoated at present)
Side markers and Lines: Lined
Neck construction materials: Maple
Neckthrough vs. Bolt-on vs. Neck-set:Always Bolt on
Action and Setup: Low, but not choking
Pickups and P/U location.: Jazz Bass config
Electronics:Passive
Body Tonewoods and body construction:Select Alder
Finish - as it may affect tone.:Polyurethane
Strings : Rotosound 45's
Craftsmanship : Fender

As you can see I'm not one for exotic woods or boutique basses, I've used Fender basses for years, I have nothing against custom, boutique or exotic basses I just love the simplicity the Fender Jazz offers

I forgot to mention the strings (always roundwound, it could be D'Addario usually or Elixir if I can efford them...they could be 125 or 120,it depends) and the body (ash).
I'd like to know what's the best fretless you've ever tried,guys...I must be honest, I love desperately my Tune WB6, but the best bass I ever tried was a Tobias...unfortunately I didn't had the cash!
At the opposite side, another great fretless bass I had for a while was a Fender Jazz Bass...simplicity and great sound!
I borrowed it from a friend of mine, he wasn't sure to keep on playin'...after a couple of weeks he wanted it back,damn'it!

The best Fretless I've ever had.

My 1988 Modulus Q5 (wide) is an exceptional instrument and am lucky to have found it. It didn't start great though, originally it was a Q6 (six string) fretted, symetric Mahogany body loaded with Bartolini dual coil P/U's and TBT pre. The string spacing was too close, and the sound, although good, was too bright for my taste.

I removed the frets, filled the fret slots and fingerboard markers with black epoxy, put new side markers in the proper positions, mounted a 3/4 inch string spacing Ken Smith 5 String bridge, cut a low Corian nut, swapped in a John East U-Retro preamp, and added a Gabon Ebony thumb support.

Now it has the wide ergonomics I like and Mwahs like a cat. Is very easy to play and fast as anyone would want. The fretlines are only visible if you look for them so I can refer when needed.

The John East U-Retro preamp was very important eliminating the nasty phenolic/graphite neck brittleness typical of these axes, a sound OK for fretted but annoying for fretless.

I went through a lot of strings before finding GHS Bright Flats. A nice string with good overtones and harmonics. Later I decided to switch to D'Addario EXP 170-5SL (coated roundwounds, super long). These strings are fantastic for Mwah but I wouldn't put them on a wood fingerboard. No problem with ruts on the phenolic fingerboard, still looks almost new.

I played a Roscoe 5 string Fretless and was very impressed with the sound and quality. If I were seeking a primo bass that did not require any modification then Roscoe might be the one.

Another bass that I find very good is the Fender Roscoe Beck. As far as I know, they don't make a fretless version but if I could have a matched Fretless/Fretted pair of these I would be very happy.

I'm thinking of defretting my Geddy Lee Fender Jazz, so I have the best of both worlds: Rosewood and Maple. Just to point out, the Geddy Lee is Maple and the Jazz Deluxe is Rosewood.

Cool, the fender Geddy Lee defretted should really rock!

yeah the Geddy Lee is a great bass by Fender I always love playing it, problem is that other jazz basses by Fender don't have the super slick neck the Geddy has, my Deluxe Jazz fretless is the closet I feel comfortable with.

As I can see you're a great fender lover, so please give me your opinion: at a sale I found they're selling a Squire by Fender (jazz style) fretless with mexican pickups for a ridicule price (100 euros/150 dollars), and I was thinking about buying it to have more sound variety (my Tune is amazing but it's piezo equipped so I can't use it in more hard settings), the problem is that they're selling it on the other part of Italy so I can't go and try it ,it's just buying it or not...what should I do, is it a good bass or better to let it go?

Hi Nick, I hear the Squire fretless are a good bass. I know a bass player who uses one he says it's very good. It seems to be a good price, if you did buy it and find you were not happy with certain aspects of the bass IE: hardware, pickups, pickguard etc they can always be modified. As for buying the bass without trying I can't answer that for you, see if you can try the same model in a store that is closer to you Good luck.

Here're mine!

Scale Length: 34"
Fingerboard Radius: 9.1"
Fingerboard materials : Epoxy (I use a Ebonol fretboard bass)
Side markers and Lines: Lined
Neck construction materials: Maple
Neckthrough vs. Bolt-on vs. Neck-set:Always Bolt on
Action and Setup: Low
Pickups and P/U location.: Jazz Bass config
Electronics:Passive
Body Tonewoods and body construction: Agathis
Finish :Polyurethane
Strings : D'Addario Chromes for Flats, Ernie Ball slinky for Rounds
Craftsmanship : I have two Fenders and a Squier. Surprisingly, I love the Squier better

My new favorite fretless bass:

I actually like this bass better than a couple of very nice (and expensive) boutique type basses.

1998 Yamaha TRB 6II fretless 6 string.

Cost: Under $500USD on Ebay
Scale Length: 35"
Fingerboard Radius: Huge, almost flat
Fingerboard materials : Unknown very hard coating over Rosewood
Side markers and Lines: Lined w/ side markers in the wrong positions
Neck construction materials: 5 piece - Maple, Walnut, Maple, Walnut, Maple. Good neck, stable with solid tone. Nice comfortable neck with a fast profile.
Bolt-on Neck: With 6 recessed bolts, dual truss rods, neck adjusts well.
Action and Setup: Low but not quite flat.
Pickups and P/U location.: Jazz Bass config
Electronics: Active 3 band EQ. Preamp is OK but not great.
Body Tonewoods and body construction: Two piece Ash body, sounds great.
Finish :Polyurethane, nice job, classy looking axe.
Strings : RotoSound Jazz 77 flats
Craftsmanship : Reputed to be out of Yamahas Japan custom shop.

I found this bass on eBay and the price was very low considering the quality. All of the important specs are right except for three problems.

The output jack is inset at an angle that prevents the use of a 90 degree cord plug. I routed out the hole and replaced it with a switchcraft part and jack plate.

The side markers are in the same places as a fretted neck. I covered the originals markers with tiny paint dots and painted on new markers in the right places, also added luminescent paint to the new side markers.

The stock pre-amp sounds lifeless to me with some mud and little warmth. Replaced it with a John East U-RETRO Deluxe pre-amp. This very quiet pre is so versatile I can dial in almost any sound. Sweepable mid allows accentuating the Mwah.

Now this bass is a very good fretless and sounds great. The point being, only a few instrument makers build fretless basses correctly from the start, don't be afraid to do minor modifications that will improve your bass and make it a proper fretless.

I think this is a great fretless tone. Guy Pratt playing a passive Lakland fretless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwht3dDPL_Q

I can't work out if he's favouring the bridge pickup and boosted the bass, or got both pickups maxed and boosted the mids. What do you think ?