What Amp do you like for Fretless?

basmansam · Post by **basmansam** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:00 pm

Greetings to my fretless bretheren, my first post on your site. I am currently fretless-less but play upright bass.
I have had great results using my Walter Woods Blue Light with a Low Down Sound (LDS) 3 way 2x8 cabinet and add a single 12 cab for larger venues. I also picked up a used Polytone MiniBrute Plus 2 -Bass. It sounds fantastic and light to carry too. It doesn't color my sound. Whatever I use for my upright usually works well for FL. I have had several FL basses over the yrs. and I'm currently looking for a Rickenbacker FL-love those Ricks!!

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:25 pm

Welcome to Fretless Bass basmansam!

Yes, excellent observation. A bass rig that works well for Upright, should also work well for the fretless.
I've got my eye out for an Acoustic Image Ten 2. Expensive but should be really good sounding.

Ampeg made a PortaBass 250 combo with 2x8 that is probably another contender.

Going in this direction does create a problem if you intend to play the fretted electric bass through the same system. In many situations you are competing in a louder type of music with a hard hitting drummer. Then a nice sounding smallish rig may not be up to the job.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:30 pm

FunkDaFied wrote:Personaly I enjoy playing on Ampeg amps, or Crate (the old models BX series)

Unfortunately I don't have yet a fretless bass

I'm so quiet, I know I will find the good one

Now, I have my fretless bass Tune. It works very well with my combo Crate B160 XL EV (Electro Voice speaker)

I intented to buy a tube guitar head amp or a little tube amp (like a Fender Super Champ or else) in order to have a warmfull sound.

Just plug it to my 15" cabinet Crate.

Do you think it will works well?

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:11 pm

FunkDaFied,

The Fender Champ uses a very small 20w EL84 power tube and does not have much power. The Fender Super Champ (2xEL84 @ 40w) is highly regarded for guitar in small situations but I know of no bass player using a Champ and being satisfied with it's power.

I would suggest that you get a more powerful amplifier to drive your crate 15" speaker box. Since you are most likely concerned with getting a good value I would consider purchasing a used solid state amp that has the features you need and at least 100w RMS into 4 Ohms.

100w is, in my opinion, the minimum practical Solid State power. This equates to about 60w tube power. I would suggest that you will need more than 100w unless playing exclusively with acoustic musicians. I like plenty of head room so I can always have a consistent CLEAN sound, so prefer more powerful amps. To give you an idea of how much power I need, my smallest amps are the Ampeg PB-250 or Eden WT-400.

Regarding Tube vs. Solid State power: My tube amp is an Ampeg SVT Pro2 Premium edition with 300w of tube power and is for sale because it is so heavy at about 100 pounds (45.5 kilos). The SVT Pro2 sounds fantastic but my Solid State amps also sound good and are much more practical.

If you require the tube sound then be prepared to spend much more money because good tube amps are big, heavy, expensive, delicate, tone monsters that require periodic maintenance/retubing, and big ones are a real hassle to move.

If it's distortion you want then it's a better idea to get it in the pre-amp or stomp box rather than in the power amp. Distortion caused by inadequate power is the number one cause of speaker destruction.

I hope this helps in your quest for an amp.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:16 am

Thank you FretLessSince68

This will help me

I think I will search a solid state preamp or a stomp box .

Maybe the Tech21 Bass Driver DI or something like that...

The light weight is important for me .

Do you think it's possible to plug the Bass Driver directly into the preamp out insert of my amp?

http://www.crateamps.com/pdf/manuals/B160XL_OM.pdf

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:50 pm

According to the Crate B160XL manual, yes you can plug an external pre-amp into the Line Input jack to directly drive the amplifier section.

The fact that you want to do this infers that you are not satisfied with the pre-amp in your B160XL. Is this the case? What are you seeking to achieve? What is it that you do not like?

You mention "warm" tone, this word has more than one meaning, perhaps you could expand on that a bit.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:45 pm

I like the Crate sound but not at all.

The "warm" tone means to me a "little bit" of tube tone like a Mesa Boogie does.

I like fat and smooth sound but not too loud.

I"ve just try the Sans Amp Bass Driver with my basses (fretted & fretless)

It sounds great with the fretted, punchy and groovy. I use the blend full.

With the fretless bass, according to the EQ setting , I have a smooth sound, with a little bit of tube tone not too much (I use the blend half).

I use others stomp effects like a PT4 Ibanez for reverb, chorus, EQ, Compressor...

I think I will keep these settings and add a 2X10 cab if I play in a bigger situation.

Do you think a 2X10 cab will give me a plenty sound?

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:34 pm

The SansAmp should also plug into the normal front panel input without problems. This would allow you to use the EQ section of your pre-amp.

According to your B160XL manual, your amplifier is rated at 4 Ohms. This is usually the minimum safe load. The speaker impedance is not specified. You can measure the impedance of the speaker with an Ohm meter. This should be done before testing any secondary speakers with this amp.

If your 4 Ohm rated amplifier sees a 2 Ohm load is will probably overheat and/or fail. A 2 Ohm load would be two 4 Ohm speakers connected in parallel.

If your B160XL 15" speaker is 4 Ohm, then it is not safe to add another speaker to the load. If the speaker is 8 Ohm, then you can add another 8 Ohm speaker but not a 4 Ohm speaker.

So, yes, you can add another speaker to this system IF the currently installed speaker is rated at 8 Ohm AND the external speaker box is also rated at 8 Ohms. Adding an external speaker is provided for in the design since there are extra speaker outputs, however you must pay attention to impedance's.

Adding a 2x10 speaker rated at 8 Ohm would probably contribute a lot to the sound and add considerably to loudness. Not just because you are driving more speakers but because an amplifier will put out much more power at a 4 Ohm load than with an 8 Ohm load.

If the 2x10 speaker enclosure is designed to be full range, then no cross-over is required.

If the bass loudness diminishes when you plug in the external speaker box this indicates a phase inversion. Reverse the polarity of one of the speaker loads.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:03 pm

Yes you're right, it's better to plug the SansAmp in the normal front panel

In my opinion the built in speaker is rated at 4 Ohm.
It has marked the maximum impedance to load is 2 Ohm.

So you told me not to add a 4 Ohm external speaker ? Am I right?

Thank you very much for your help.

I'll put ASAP a song including my Crate picked up with a microphone then you'll tell me what you think

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 pm

Since the amplifier itself is marked 2 Ohm minimum load then you have more options. What ever speaker selection you choose, they should both have the same impedance to facilitate more equal loudness. If you have both a 4 Ohm speaker and an 8 Ohm speaker, the four Ohm will sound louder.

With a 2 Ohm rated amplifier you can use the following combinations when wired parallel:
Two speakers each rated at 8 Ohm (4 Ohm load).
Two speakers, one rated at 4 Ohms and the other at 8 Ohm (approx. 6 Ohm load).
Two speakers each rated at 4 Ohms (2 Ohm load).

Personally, I would not load any amplifier that may be driven hard with a 2 Ohm load (even if rated 2 Ohm). A two Ohm load makes the amp work very hard and you may find that the service life of the amplifier is shortened.

If you do choose to go with a 2 Ohm load, I would advise that you not drive it at maximum for an extended period of time.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:43 pm

Thank you

I'll try an Ohm meter to see the impedance , it's better.

My Crate amp has close to 20 years old , and I want it to be older

According to the neodymium speakers.

What kind of choice could you suggest me ?

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:08 pm

I'm not conversant with the various brands and models of speakers.

I can say that building your own enclosures is usually more expensive than planned. From a financial point of view, a used speaker box in good condition is a better value.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Yes you're right.

I plan to go to my music shop soon (maybe tomorrow) I'll rent an Ohm meter for my amp and will tell you my choice...

Thank you very much

Mr. Mike · Post by **Mr. Mike** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:21 pm

My rig is a Euphonic Audio IAMP500 amp and a pair of Euphonic Audio Wizzy 12 cabinets.

FunkDaFied · Post by **FunkDaFied** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:58 pm

Cool.

Do you have a myspace or song, in order to see (ear) what you do?