Vibrato / Glissando

bargeanimal · Post by **bargeanimal** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:42 am

Hi all,

I've been looking all over the internet and youtube for a video which shows how to do sliding vibrato on a fretless bass. I think the correct term for what I'm talking about is "Glissando". I mean not just rocking the fingers back and forth on the string but actually sliding to get that wide vibrato effect. I can't find any video which shows how to develop the technique. Does anyone know of any video which actually teaches you how to practice and learn this technique? I've been trying it on my MIM Fender Jazz bass with round wound strings and it tears the fingers off, so I've ordered a set of D'addario Chromes which will hopefully make life a bit easier. If anyone knows where I can find such a video it would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Barge.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Welcome to FretlessBass Barge!

Your question "how to do sliding vibrato" is one that has, until now, not come up. So thank-you for that.

Sliding vibrato is not Glissando. Glissando a.k.a. Gliss is usually a smoothly executed change in pitch either ascending or descending. The pitch movement should not warble or change direction, rather be a continuous transition from one pitch to another.

Sliding Vibrato is a motion that alternates in pitch similar to violin vibrato but is more extreme in excursion and requires a different technique. Sliding vibrato is executed by sliding the intonating finger up and down the fingerboard as much as a whole tone interval, or even more if you wish to be outrageous.

Yes, sliding vibrato is hard on the finger pads, if you are a seasoned player with calluses this will not be a problem. As you suggest, changing over to flat wound strings will reduce the friction.

Good luck and keep those questions coming.

bargeanimal · Post by **bargeanimal** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:12 pm

Hey thank you so much FretLessSince68 for your reply, the information and especially the warm welcome. I'm surprised no one has brought this up before. I appreciate if done badly vibrato is horrible but I love nice vibrato. The violin type vibrato is beautiful but being a much smaller instrument, I think it's possible to do a lot more. Can you actually do really aggressive, distraught wild wide vibrato on a fretless bass in violin style? I thought you would need to do the sliding thing for that. Mick Karn comes to mind. The only violin style vibrato I've seen done on a fretless bass was quite timid. I would be very happy if you can show me any links to educate me on that. If anyone knows any exercises to learn sliding vibrato I would be very grateful. What I'm doing at the moment is playing scales with a metronome and sliding each note down a semitone and back up four times for each note. Can't remember where I read that from. Sounds like a cat being strangled in fairness. Thanks very much again.

Barge.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:44 pm

You said: "Can you actually do really aggressive, distraught wild wide vibrato on a fretless bass in violin style?"

No, not really, although you can express nervousness and tension.

To do what you describe you have to combine violin technique with sliding of the finger. Basically, you start the vibrato using violin technique, then break the skin contact of the intonating finger and let it slide. Continue to slide up and down the fingerboard in a controlled manner. Get as radical as you wish.

The sound of extreme vibrato is not very musical to me. If your intention is to communicate angst or other distraught emotion it should work well.

Jaco (who played RotoSound RS66 round wound strings) said he used chicken grease to help lubricate his slides and glissando.

bargeanimal · Post by **bargeanimal** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:57 pm

"Basically, you start the vibrato using violin technique, then break the skin contact of the intonating finger and let it slide. Continue to slide up and down the fingerboard in a controlled manner. Get as radical as you wish."

I'm trying to visualise this. I wish I could see it done on video. The bit I'm having most trouble with is "break the skin contact of the intonating finger and let it slide". Excuse my ignorance but how can you let it slide when you've broken the skin contact of the intonating finger?

I didn't know that Jaco did this chicken grease thing. I can imagine all sorts of animals hatching in his flight case:) RIP Jaco.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:02 am

OK, let's break it down into elements.

You want to play a note and then use sliding vibrato around it.

In your mind you have planned to execute vibrato originating on a particular note. As you play the note and are using violin vibrato you decide that more vibrato would sound better but your finger is limited in it's ability to roll. At this point you transition into sliding vibrato. The slide will start with with either an up or down motion (on the fingerboard) and then oscillating above and below that same chosen note. You have also planned how great an excursion your sliding vibrato will use. This all happens in your mind automatically, your intent is what you play.

First put a finger on the note you wish to play simultaneously plucking the string. While doing this you start executing violin vibrato as you would anytime you desire that.

Here is where it deviates from normal technique.

Instead of continuing violin type vibrato you transition into sliding vibrato. Your slide should commence in the same direction as your finger roll.

At this moment your finger roll is moving in the direction you wish to slide, reduce the downward pressure of the intonating finger enough to allow a slide (reduced but not lifted finger pressure causing less friction and a break in finger adhesion to the string and fingerboard). Once the slide has started you may increase finger pressure to maintain string vibration. Continue the motion to the limit of your desired sliding vibrato.

At the limit of your sliding vibrato excursion, without pause, reverse the direction of the slide moving past the original note and then an equal distance from where you reversed. And so on.

It is important to maintain the original note as the center of your sliding vibrato excursion. If your sliding becomes asymmetrical the human ear will perceive your average note as being either sharp or flat.

Thanks for the question.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:52 pm

An Interesting Observation:

While practicing today I made myself more conscious then usual about just what I was doing for vibrato.

Lo and behold! I'm using sliding vibrato, but not very dramatically. I'm actually surprised to learn that I have been doing this for many years without thinking about it. Thanks again for asking this great question!

To answer your earlier question about the range of vibrato available to electric fretless bass players. Yes, violin vibrato does restrict you because your ability to roll the finger pad is limited, when more pitch modification is desired one can transition into sliding vibrato.

I agree with you that violin technique on the violin affords a greater degree of available vibrato just because of the scale of the two instruments. When playing the bass violin (upright bass) ones ability to express vibrato is even more limited due to the (approx.) 41 inch scale. To solve this problem I long ago developed the ability to transition seamlessly from violin vibrato to sliding vibrato.

What I tend to do is start with violin vibrato and if the mood demands it I transition into sliding vibrato but with a small excursion. I've been doing this without really thinking about it until now.

The difference between the two vibrato types is actually subtle the way I use it. Not at all wild unless that is the intention. Conversely when I'm done massaging a note with sliding vibrato I usually revert to violin vibrato to let it decay gracefully. It all depends on the note, mood, and context of emotional expression.

Vibrato on the fretless bass has a range of excursion that starts narrowly in the violin technique (rolling of the finger pad) and extends into a broader range using sliding vibrato.

The key is to transition from one technique to the other without a noticeable change in sound, timbre, or tone. All I can say is that I do it with a careful and long practiced control of finger pressure.

Regarding finger abrasion: I am using DeAddario coated roundwound strings on the Modulus Q5 (tone monster) I do not notice any discomfort when doing sliding vibrato, but then I have been playing a long time. If you experience finger pain or abrasion I would suggest using a lighter touch, developing calluses, or both.

One thing that I think important. Keep the sliding vibrato excursion short, no more than a quarter of a semitone below and above the note! For example, on the G string playing a D note (35 inch scale instrument) I rarely exceed 1/2 inch (13 mm) total excursion up and down. On higher notes less excursion and conversely more excursion for the lowest notes.

I still think that extreme sliding vibrato is unmusical, so work on controlling the excursion to be consistent up and down, and not more than a quarter of a semitone.

Vibrato is one of the primary tools available to us for expressing the beauty of music. This discussion has been most valuable in expanding the understanding of vibrato technique on the fretless bass.

Thanks again for making me think about how I use vibrato.

bargeanimal · Post by **bargeanimal** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:57 pm

Hey Fretlesssince68 thanks so much for all this extremely interesting information. My D'addario Chromes arrived today so I stuck them on the bass straight away. Of course I wasn't in the slightest bit surprised to find out my vibrato still doesn't work. However there is a lot less pain which is hopefully a plus. I'm not giving up on this. I'm going to keep at it until I can do it. I used to play bass over 20 years ago but never fretless. Fretless is a totally different ball game. If we were talking fretted I could just about get myself ready to gig. I have a Steinberger L2 which makes life a lot easier than a MIM Jazz Fretless.

I know a guy who is a serious session player and he has told me you won't get that fretless thing working quickly anyway. It takes a lot of time. I can appreciate that and he's also made me feel a lot better by telling me he has seen a lot of people who just couldn't do the vibrato thing.

I also appreciate what you're saying about excessive distasteful vibrato being unmusical. You just have to listen to bad singers to see that.

Here's another thing on vibrato which I found very interesting. I read a few years ago, that vibrato is not actually a fluctuation between two notes. It is actually a fluctuation between the intended note and a note somewhat lower - never higher. Just when I thought it couldn't get any more complicated.

I'm still surprised that no one else has brought this up before though. When I think of stringed instruments, I immediately think of vibrato. God it must have been very boring back in the Baroque era with no vibrato

Thanks so much again for all this wonderful detail

As always, best regards

Barge.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:32 pm

You are welcome, thanks for the kind words.

It is my understanding that violin vibrato technique oscillating the note an equal amount both below and above the center pitch is more beautiful than vibrato below the note.

The human ear tends to average out the varying pitches it hears in vibrato into one note located at the center of vibrato excursion. If you were to execute vibrato that only goes flat and then returns to the proper pitch the ear/brain would perceive the center of the note as going flat. This is why it is important that your vibrato technique be symmetrical in up and down movement.

Vibrato IS a technique that you can learn, it's not hard, just requires practice. Start by playing a series of whole notes (not an open string) with no intention of playing other notes, just one note. Nice and long legato notes. Next start rolling your intonating finger up and down the fingerboard a small amount. This amount of roll is determined by the flexibility of your finger pads. You should perceive some vibrato at this point.

The actual physical movement of your hand may involve some rolling of the wrist, or perhaps not. Every person, each finger, and every note, is different. On some notes I just use a small amount of lateral movement of the hand where the finger pad still rolls but the bone inside the finger does not. On notes getting more dramatic vibrato the wrist as well as the finger bone will move to provide a greater vibrato excursion. Watch a video of a symphony string section to see correct violin vibrato technique in action.

Here are some violin (actually Cello) technique videos: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... SvvrLdSsGY

Cello technique is most similar to fretless bass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_yJ1Fa1 ... re=related
Practice your whole note vibrato using each finger as seen in this video. Note that each finger gets a different action from the wrist. The first finger gets more wrist and the fourth finger get very little to no wrist yet yields about the same vibrato.

Try to avoid using the arm for vibrato, this reduces fine control, leads to fatigue, and possible injury.

This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_JB4KEe ... re=related talks about vibrato being below the note rather than equally around it. Very interesting. They do not address the psychoacoustic perception of the brain rather focus on the more pleasing sound of "square" vibrato.

When you need to exceed the potential of violin vibrato technique THEN you may use sliding vibrato for more dramatic effect.

Guitar vibrato, a.k.a. side bends, increases the pitch then returns to original pitch when the side bending finger is removed or relaxed. Guitar side bends never allow true (up AND down motion) vibrato due to the basic limitations set by frets.

bargeanimal · Post by **bargeanimal** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:47 pm

Wow this has really turned out to be a most informative document you've created. Hopefully many people will benefit from it in the future. The video link is absolutely fantastic. Why couldn't I find something like that in the first place? I'm still working on it every day. Not really any progress to show yet but I'm not giving up. The guy in the video is very encouraging by asking you to promise him you won't try too hard and 'anyone can do it'.

The link on the discussion about 'flat' vibrato is also very interesting. I should have mentioned that I have come across a slight debate on that once before. Yes the symmetric vibrato is certainly more pleasing in many ways, but I still hold out hope that the 'flat' vibrato must also have a place albeit somewhere quite grim, which I suppose is an emotion too.

I look forward to any further developments on this great document and I'm so glad I asked the question in the first place. I'll keep you posted if I have any ground breaking progress to report.

The very best of luck to you

Kind regards

Barge.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:18 pm

I believe that so called "flat" vibrato arose because of the ergonomics and mechanical positioning of the hand wrist and arm on the Cello and some other string instruments. In other words, "flat" vibrato is less difficult mechanically on instruments where one sits behind.

For the electric fretless bass, there is no logical reason to use "flat" vibrato as our instrument is positioned unlike any member of the violin family.

I will continue to support symmetrical or "square" vibrato as being more natural, beautiful sounding, and conforming to the way human beings hear warbling tones as an averaged pitch.

Thanks for your input on this subject, it would not be here if you had never asked.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:01 pm

One subject we did not discuss is vibrato speed or frequency.

The expert Cello player seen in one of the videos (links above) recommends four oscillations per beat. Keep in mind that this person is a classically trained musician most likely playing in a symphony orchestra. He has to blend well with the other string section players thus requiring a certain standard of vibrato speed among all the section players.

We fretless bass players have no such constraint. Our vibrato can be any frequency we like for any given note in any piece of music. In general I use slow vibrato for longer and lower notes, and short vibrato for shorter and higher notes.

I also will start a note using my standard vibrato speed (about three or four per beat) and then alter the speed to suit the mood. Usually from standard to slower. Slow vibrato really brings out the overtones and beauty of the fretless bass, especially in the lower regions. On the lowest notes of the fretless bass you may have to use sliding vibrato to get the sound you seek due to the scale length.

Fast vibrato has a nervous sound to my ear so I seldom use it unless I have had too much coffee. I have two main vibrato speeds, standard and slow, but can, and will, use any speed in between as the need arises.

After you have the basic vibrato skill working, practice varying the speed. I call this variation in speed "massaging" the note. I like to milk all the expression I can from every note, thus my motto "One good note makes my day".