What Amp do you like for Fretless?

RichmanRush · Post by **RichmanRush** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:43 am

My only experience is what I tried in the store (GC). I tried a few Ampegs, a couple SWR's (Working man, or something, if I recall?).

It came down to one of the SWR's and an Ampeg. I went Ampeg as it seemed a bit more punchy to me and that's what I was going for.

Ended up with an Ampeg SVT3-Pro and an Ampeg 410HLF cabinet and have not been let down. I also run a Sansamp Para DI when PAs are available. Unfortunately, no band currently so they are collecting dust

Just practice through an old 10W Crate guitar practice amp. LOL

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:03 pm

RichmanRush, your comment:

Unfortunately, no band currently so they are collecting dust

Is my situation too. The gigs are gone. What happened? It seems as if society has little use for local live music these days. My entire life's work has been made irrelevant by societies preference for turbo bass rap and free downloads. This would be an interesting subject for another topic, but not really relevant to fretless bass. My teaching practice is pretty much the extent of my musical life right now.

I too am an Ampeg enthusiast, they sound great. Ampeg amplifiers have a tone that to my ears, is the way bass is supposed to sound. My first amp was a 1960's Ampeg B15 Portaflex (Flip top) and my most recent amp is an Ampeg PortaBass PB800 with a PortaBass 212 (2x12) cab. In between I have tried just about everything and wasted a whole lot of money. All of my boutique amplification and speakers are gone now.

In order of frequency of use (and size):

Ampeg PortaBass PB250 (PBC2112) combo w/1x12 neo.
Amgeg Portabass 212 2x12 neo cab. w/PortaBass PB800 on top.
Ampeg SVT 810e cab. w/ Ampeg SVT Pro 6 on top.
Ampeg SVT Pro 2 Premier Edition #076 all tube amp. Too heavy and for sale.
All made in the USA.

The Portabass line is discontinued so only available used.

The Ampeg PB250 1x12 combo amp is my favorite jazz, rehearsal, and all around useful rig. It sounds the best of all my rigs, but is too small for many situations.

The Ampeg PB800 is a great sounding amp and if I could only have one, this is the one I would keep. At 19 pounds it is not as light as the new micros's but this weight is no problem and it sounds excellent. Actually sounds better to my ear than the Eden WT-550 which has become my back-up amp. The Ampeg PB800 is one of those underrated and hard to find amps. It really is a keeper. Easy to tweak, easy to move, sounds good with just about any setting, and has enough power for 90% of the gigs I used to do.

UPDATE: 06/08/2014 - The Ampeg PortaBass PB800 proved to be unreliable. Too bad because it sounded great. Ampeg used a third party vendor to make a component called a Modulator circuit. These tend to fail and parts are not obtainable from Ampeg. Too bad. Back to the Eden WT-550 as my favorite mid size amp head.

The Ampeg PB212 cabinet also sounds very good and I recommend it if you can find one. Very light weight and has the sealed enclosure that I think has a tighter sound than ported enclosures. The only thing about the PortaBass cabinets is that their neo speakers cannot take abuse, so if you hammer your gear it probably is not the right rig.

UPDATE: 02/27/2013 - I have upgraded the drivers in the Ampeg PB212 cabinets to Eminence DeltaLite II 2512. The original drivers sounded fine but were lacking in power handling capability. With the new drivers it still sounds great and can be pushed a lot harder.

The SVT Pro 6 is another great amp. It is 2U rack spaces but very deep. Has tube preamp and a tube bias voltage control that is very cool. Parametric EQ that I like very much and 1130 watts of class A MosFet power. It is heavy but THE SOUND! Classic SVT sound (and more) without the reliability concerns and weight of an all tube amp.

Now, having said these good things about Ampeg products I should mention that they have exported their production facilities to Vietnam and are using wood products and parts produced in China. I have heard many reports about the inferior quality of the new products. I suggest that if it's an Ampeg amp you want, seek out a used unit made in the USA. I think that you will get a better bargain AND better quality.

RichmanRush · Post by **RichmanRush** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:10 pm

Sorry I've been away so long...

I did manage to join a hard rock/metal band back in June/July... unfortunately it was VERY short lived as I had to quit last month (November). Had a great time and opened for some great acts (Queensryche and ANVIL), but the guitarist and I did not see eye to eye on the role and tone of the bass player.

Me, obviously, played fretless. Guitarist did not like it at all. From my second audition up until my last rehearsal with them, it was "change your tone" and/or "bring a fretted bass". Finally said, I'm not the guy you're looking for and parted ways.

Sad thing is, drummer and singer didn't mind, but it was obviously the guitar player running the show. But I digress...

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:34 am

This has happened to me too. A friend (guitarist) of mine has actually stated that he hates the sound of fretless bass and never misses an opportunity to jibe me about my affection for the instrument.

He has actually said "People only applaud fretless bass solos because they are glad it's over".

Another one he uses is..."If I wanted an out of tune bassist, I would rather have a detuned fretted (bass)". Incidentally, he never asks me to play on his gigs, he prefers a meat and potatoes vintage tone Fender guy (fretted) that is pedantic and uncreative.

I have thought about this and come to the conclusion that this guitarist, and I presume some others as well, are so in love with their own sound that there is no room in their universe for another good sounding instrument. That the sole purpose of the bass and other instruments is to aggrandize the guitarist.

I'm sure that good guitar players exist that are secure in their talent and ability, who are willing to share the light with others, and who do not stoop to degrading the character of other instruments.

In my many years of playing bass I have found that the very best musicians are usually nice people who would never say such a crass and intolerant thing.

RichmanRush · Post by **RichmanRush** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:58 pm

If only more people shared your openness in music.

I do agree, that some (most) guitar players are so attached to a certain sound (either in their head or they want to sound like their favorite artists) or don't want anyone to possibly in the slightest draw attention away from them.

I mean, it's not like I was soloing, or playing frenetic crazy bass lines. I was very supportive and keeping the low end (and to a point playing as simple as possible). But from that second rehearsal it was "we need the low end" or "chest pounding bass"... he said he didn't care what I played so long as it was in key and time... but that did change a few weeks later when on the chorus for one song I would hit the root, then slide from the 5th up to the octave that the sliding "conflicted with the singer". Singer said he liked it... but I still had to change my bass line (whole note roots is what I changed it too LOL).

I mean, I never got comfortable enough to expand on my basslines which, for the most part, was not more than doubling the guitars or pounding root notes.
---
The complete opposite side of the spectrum? My good friends 'band', whom he LOVES fretless bass. I even get crap from him at practices when I would bring the fretted to rehearsals (to preserve my fretless neck)... sad thing is, that 'band' has never gotten off the ground in almost 3 years now. I get complete freedom in my playing; I get to solo here and there; I get to add some funk to my bass lines; I'm expected to bring my fretless; etc etc. We just can't get a decent drummer (and 2nd guitarist) to get out of the basement.

Sorry for the long post... just venting LOL!

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:40 pm

I get complete freedom in my playing; I get to solo here and there; I get to add some funk to my bass lines; I'm expected to bring my fretless; etc

You are lucky to have that going for you. The entire live music scene is changing now. Paying gigs are few to none unless you are among the inner circle or wish to compete in the young people scene where they have three bands an evening each playing a 90 minute show..

Modern Bands often only have one or two sets (or one "Show") worth of very simple (harmonically) material in their entire bag. It is often difficult even for a good bassist to make crap sound great, so the bassist is frustrated by having to play moronic bass lines to the "same old sh*t" or ignorant chord progressions. I call this "dumb dumb bass". I think that if one has the opportunity to play better music we should jump on it even if there is zero business potential.

If you look at the history of music you will see that musicians getting paid for the work we do is a modern idea. In the old days most music was very local and only a few got paid, those being the ones fortunate enough to be in the local patrons orchestra. It was patronage for the elite, and play for the joy of it for every one else.

I think that we are moving back toward this old model in our winner take all society. If you are not the winner, then you are nowhere. But nowhere is an acceptable place to be if you get to play the music you love and it makes people happy. Who knows, perhaps you will get that lucky break we have all heard about but almost none have experienced.

So...The bottom line seems to be playing music for the joy of it. Play the music you love, make some people feel the joy, and forget about being successful. I think you are fortunate to have some players who appreciate your musicality without demanding changes.

Play your music without a drummer, that experience will strengthen your group. Do some benefits and low to no pay gigs. Eventually the right person may come up and ask you if you need a drummer.

NewFret · Post by **NewFret** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:03 pm

I am playing on an Acoustic B300H thru an Ampeg 4x10 and an Ampeg 1x15. The Acoustic tends to emphasize mid-range and I love the sound thru the Ampeg cabs.

FretLessSince68 · Post by **FretLessSince68** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:35 pm

SWR Marcus Miller GoLight 4x10

I traded in my 105 pound Eden D410XLT for the Golight sealed cab. I am VERY happy with the weight difference. Sounds good too, less boomy yet still has very audible bass sound. Projection is fine but different than a ported box. I would say the dispersion is better, less beamed. Perfect as a stage monitor. Very few situations these days call for the bass player to have a rig that can fill a large room. If the room is large, they usually have a large PA to support the stage sound.

The tweeter seems cheap to me and sounds to be of lesser quality, the trade off is that the part SWR selected is light weight. I did some slap style playing using a fretted bass and I quickly got used to the sound of this tweeter. It's fine, just not as smooth as a Fostex.

56 pounds total weight! That's a huge difference.
Tonally, the GoLight MM is easier to hear onstage, the notes develop immediately vs. somewhere about 15 feet away for a ported box. I still prefer the tone of my Ampeg Portabass 2x12 (sealed) cabs. Better detail and the mwah is more present, less boomy bottom. The SWR Marcus Miller GoLight is a close second, and way ahead of the Eden D410XLT tonally. I think the Eden can pound out more SPL and take a beating better.

The GoLight MM has greater cubic air volume per driver than the PortaBass cabs so that is probably the explanation for why it has a bigger low end.

If you have read my other posts about not liking bass cabinets designed to maximize low end loudness you will appreciate why I like this SWR Marcus Miller GoLight 4x10 box. I think that Marcus Miller and I agree on the importance of (or preference for) cabinets that have an even, relatively flat, response. This cabinet is among the few that perform this way AND are light weight.

Overall I would say that the perceived manufacturing quality is not as good as older American made units. I had to tighten most of the screws. It seems that economizing at every opportunity is the trend these days so I really should not be surprised. The tweeter seems cheap to me, but also light weight. The drivers are stamped basket Neos. I would think that it would be a good idea to not exceed the 800w rating. The drivers are mounted using Tee nuts so that's a big positive compared to other brands that use wood screws. The box is covered in the usual Rat Fur. Two or three pounds could be reduced by stripping that stuff off.

I don't think this cabinet would hold up to serious road work very well. The grill screen is aluminum and deforms with even light impacts. If it were to take a bad fall it would probably break apart, whereas the Eden boxes would likely look bad but still work. As long as one does not abuse it, I think it will be a very good cab for the casual "weekend warrior" type musician. I like it a lot.

All in all, I'm very pleased with the GoLight MM. The large bottom can be easily corrected with E.Q.. In larger rooms the larger bottom end will probably be welcome.

Made in Mexico.
Out of production so only available used.

GC · Post by GC » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:44 pm

He has actually said "People only applaud fretless bass solos because they are glad it's over".

I think I'd have mentioned that certain guitar players only have teeth because there isn't a bass in them (yet), or that if he didn't like it as much as the others did that there a probably hundreds of other guitar players who'd love an audition... and that the 80's have been over since before his hair started falling out XD

I've left bands because I hated the bass lines I had to play.

padouk · Post by **padouk** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:18 pm

Thats why most hardrock/metal..whatever you're into is dead. It ain't fresh.
Give me 3..no just 2 bars and i name song, group, coping group..
In Germany, they're called "outfit-rockers"

Look at your own words:...you have to play..by order of THE guitarist?
There is DRUM and BASS, then there is rythm guitar and a singer to add sense, because simple progressions don't leave much for fantasy except for
"Hey..that just sounds like xy, remember?"
..and then there is a solo guitarist..if everything is sounding good already and the singer is a showoff like daveleeroth..and the record company boss urgendly wants this band to start a worldwide tour like aerosmith or the stones with trucks of equipment.......... and so on

Things to look at:
- Does the drummer give a correct, undiscussable beat? Staying independent and beeing in no relatioinship with another member?
- Is the guitarist/rythm-guitar of the same kind, with the ability to switch to soloing?
- Singer can really sing (even without equipment)
and most important
- is one of them a true leader with true personality/charisma AND the ability to compose (not creating "his/her own" by simply mixing well known stuff) something, that makes you like to groove to it?

If one of these points is a failure, don't ask for a change and waste your time, money and nerves..leave and improve otherwise.

Oh, and if everything is just perfect, smooth running..outstanding..ask for a lead guitar by audition and you find out, how many secret "slashs" can do it on their first/second try. Then you just choose the most stable and versatile one, not the hippest, who aint got much time, feels itchy and needs a nose or a shot to stay .. sort "clear"
ssssellable apearance, ssstable working, sssort of groovy so you can dance to it. Else you try Superstar-Shows or HMetal-Model-Contests..^^

padouk · Post by **padouk** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:33 pm

..and not to forget YOURSELF:
- are you technically flexable enough
- open minded for new things
- with a huge knowledge background of totally different bands, styles, able to play their style, maybe even trying to improve parts?
- and you show up, giving a first impression of freshness which could be easily added or you resemble (at least) a somewhat postive vibration?
That is something to work on, too.
Plastic-faces, -moves, -sounds is only sellable to some kiddies for a short time..the more you work on yourself as a whole thing, the more confident you get, the more you know what you accept and where to give an instant NO!, which again rises your own standards to yourself, which makes you.., because of that....will you follow?

padouk · Post by **padouk** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:43 pm

to admin:

last two replys belong to this thread:
http://fretlessbass.com/viewtopic.php?t=52&start=30

I feel sorry for that..I had to many windows open at the same time

padouk · Post by **padouk** » Fri May 02, 2014 6:20 pm

This post belongs here. (because of the two wrong placed ones above)

Sure many of the elder amps are sort of unreplacable in thoughts of their owners and not so long ago I thought the same, when I heard blurry or artificcially clear sounding transistor amps, but did you ever try one of the elder tube preamps, going line out to input in the newer digital amps of Gallien Krueger, TC Electronics ...? At least the GK MB 200 and 500 just
take voltage to volume with new, never seen before cool action.
There's even a version with tube pre, but I like the elder trace eliott for their graphical eq..
If your bass sounds fine and pus are exactly taking that sound, same with same bass over your fav tube preamp, the Id recommend these GKs as Power slaves with neutrsl EQ-settings except for lowest bass, depending on recommended resonance frequency of your speakers/box.
I like them extra cool:
- just enough peak on the tube preamp diving into the active (-10dB=on)
- max gain on middle (no slightest chance to overdrive)
- box at least 600 W for the MB200 (or 2 boxes for the MB500)
Now play with volume for each PU - no need for switches, tone blenders..

padouk · Post by **padouk** » Fri May 02, 2014 7:29 pm

btw. if you like to pimp your box for weight
- look for your boxes volume and construction plans. If in doubt compare to similar ones. The slightly oversized ones do a better deep end, with "their speakers" attached.
- so what speakers do they have? Get their data sheets and have look on the more or less linear curve of their db related to frequency. There, you even might find an answer for a tonal hole in your bass..neck..pu..you searched for. Yes,
- speakers went cheaper, more poerful, more linear and if you like to pimp up an old cab, look for neodym-speakers, wheighing less than half, with faster response, more moving air per square inch..and especially less tone holes (not generally! Look and find out on your own)
I started looking on this, because I never found something small and still..
...voluminous? sounding. A combo sounded like a combo, no matter what rand and what speaker you envolve.. so equivalent to small digital power slaves, one has to find the right compromse between
- most db per watt input in a
- linear curve, especially in the used range horizontal with few to no highs/lows
- "recommended enclosure volume" (on any data sheet shows the min/max volume size, your box shoud have) - another factor, which seem to make bass players worrying about PUs, tonewood..
i.E. you'll hear lots of undefinable hum (box to big, membranes to heavy)
or no real pushing abilities (hearsay: only 6x12" and up can do it) simply because vetilation is not right or a vent-speaker in a closed cab.
All in all: open up your fav 30 lbs tube amp and your neighbours one and you'll find out: it's all the same with differences in transformator sizes and materials.

As for the huge crowd you get a DI and for clubs a smaller, but hifi-sound is a go, I#m still breeding on the smallest, lightest box, able to take and move the 200W sin and not clipping on peak...