going active.

[redbeardred]

allright, i've got some tax money coming and my first instinct was, rent an upright for three months. then i looked at how much room we have in the apartment and my better judement prevailed. so i'm dropping an aguilar OBP-3 in my old fenderjazz/bartolinpu-frettless mexican.
now, i'm a little bit of a purist. i like flat wounds, a foam mute and "pulling" on the strings. in fact the only reason i took the frets off in the first place is having two basses with frets is redudundent.

However, this website and it's community have brodened my world veiw.
thank you fretlessbass.com.

and in the spirit of trying new things which i think are some kind of witchcraft- i'm going active. What am i in store for fellas?

[FretLessSince68]

I'm an advocate of John East Internal preamps. He is a bass player and knows what we like. Most of his preamps feature a semi parametric mid frequency E.Q. circuit.

The most important feature for fretless is having greater E.Q. potential in the lower middle frequencies. This is where passive rigs are lacking unless the instrument has exceptional inherent tone.

So...bottom line. If your instrument has stellar tone you don't need an internal preamp.

I have several fretless basses and each sounds different, however I have a "sound Image" in my head that I like to hear out of each axe (except for the semi-acoustic piezo P/U that I want to sound like a URB). To satisfy this "Sound Image" idea I use John East U-RETRO preamps in the magnetic P/U axes so that I can "get my sound".

And it works.

One caveat, if your P/Us are lacking in frequency range, this limitation will be more apparent if you install a good internal preamp. You can't E.Q. a frequency if it is not there in the first place.

[redbeardred]

the obp-3 has a mid selector of 400hz and 800hz so 400hz would be the low mid. do you cut or boost your low mids?

[FretLessSince68]

The definition of low middle frequencies is entirely up to the ear of the person. If it is an audiophile low-mids is about .9K to 2.5K Hz. To a guitarist low-mid is about 1K to 3.5K Hz. To a bassist low-mid is a range from about 250 Hz to 1K Hz. Depending on how the individual chooses to define it.

The object of having a middle frequency control onboard a fretless bass is (in my opinion) to enhance (boost) the mwah/growl sound. Some people call this "bark" in lower notes and "singing" in the higher notes.

On a fretted basses this control is usually (but not always) used to cut (attenuate) mids in order to achieve a "scooped" sound such as is popular for slap style. When a preamp builder designs these internal units they are usually thinking of fretted bass as that is where most of the sales volume is. The point being that fixed center frequency EQ may not be able to zero in on the mwah sound since it is limited to two center frequencies.

For fretless low-mid is all about growl, mwah, and the tone reproducing capability of your amp/speakers. As has been mentioned mwah seems to reside at approximately 700 Hz but is variable from instrument to instrument depending on materials, strings, construction, and the players fingers. So fretless basses will usually sound different even though they share the fretless aspect, and their mwah sound may reside at varying frequencies.

Since mwah frequency seems to be variable it is logical to presume that a device to enhance mwah should also be variable. Thus fixed center frequency middle range EQ circuits are of limited usefulness to the fretless player.

In my opinion a semi-parametric variable frequency mid EQ circuit is much more desirable for the purpose of enhancing mwah or compensating for speaker tuning.

I have not had any personal experience with the OPB-3 but understand that it is a quality device. I do have personal experience with Bartolini pre-amps with switchable fixed center frequencies. In my opinion, as good as Bartolini pre-amps are, they were not designed with the fretless bass in mind.

Variable sweep mid tone circuits are available from several makers and they would be worth investigating before spending ones money.

[redbeardred]

you wrote "sound image" and that struck a cord for me.

when i was real young on the bass i picked up something from watt's 'engine room' lyrics.

http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Watt/Cont ... ngine+Room

in 'no one says old man to the old man' he sings "as the bow of the boat plows the ocean"

if i got a sound image it's that, just try to take the whole room that way...my notes are mostly long roots. pushing the dianamic of what rufus reid calls 'the big letters' and the giving the other musicans, and the congragation a context to worship to. that's the "bow." this sounds like the ampeg is a power genrator.

now with jamming or faster songs--i play the "ocean". i guess my "concept" comes more from punk. i picked up the bass cause i could hear kim gordan on a sonic youth album and said, "i can do that". but we swim in a big ocean brother.
this sounds like the best sound you can get in the room at the time. but i want to be able to hear the note i'm playing all over the neck. as rule if you got a bluesy tone you can walk around the neck with then forget about what your doing and try to listen to what the other cats are playing.
what would be described here as the URB is what i want to hear but i don't mind running a fretted p bass into a distortion pedal after some bong hits--i just try not to make a habit of it.

could you describe your "sound image" since68?

[redbeardred]

oh, another way of describing the "bow" is how mike mignola draws hellboy. put a page of hellboy next to other superhero comic. he'll draw something really simple with big patches colors...and huge black shadow.

it's using as little detail as possible to tell a story.

[FretLessSince68]

I'll try to describe my personal "sound Image" but we are talking' tone here so it is subjective.

It all started when I began playing upright bass many years ago. I crossed over from a fretted Fender Jazz to the upright instead of the other way around as was more common back then.

The URB has a sound that many of us have tried to emulate and it is elusive for a lot of reasons, among them the fact that the instrument sounds different in each setting, and every bass is different. At any rate I found that a certain double stop has this incredible rich sound that to this day I still love to play just to listen to the TONE.

That double stop is a fifth interval from C. Play a C on the A string (third position), and the G (D string fifth position) to make this sound. It should be a rich and complex salad of vibrations that shout timbre, power, and tone. A tone beyond growl, more like a tigers roar with music added. If a bass sounds impressive when doing this I know I've got a good axe in my hands tone-wise.

This also works on electric bass, especially fretless. If you have boosted the bass and cut out the middle and treble frequencies with EQ it will not be the same. So don't expect this to work if your sound is "vintage".

So this Tigers Roar is my "sound image' concept. Leave the tone alone except to enhance this tigers roar as a starting point. Give it throaty tone that screams fretless, this should be helpful to get a good mwah too. From there I have my basic sound. When needed, I can EQ to achieve "vintage" or whatever other tone the music demands.

I have installed a John East U-RETRO preamp on each of my fretless basses (except the one with piezo P/Us) and I use the sweepable mid tone control to zero in on, and emphasize the monster growl while playing the C 5th double stop. Then I add low end to fatten it up, but just enough to be full, too much bass obscures the tone. I also usually trim off some of the high frequency content to smooth off the "edge" that Bartolini P/U's have. Some other P/U's are even more edgy so it might be necessary to cut a lot of the highs at the very top (for fretless). Just don't whack it all off, leave a taste of brilliance in the signal.

Strings are important. The Tiger likes his strings alive. Low tension strings are (in my opinion) born dead. Sorry Thomastic, I don't like your overpriced flubby noodles.

Next is the fingerboard. As with mwah, a hard surface enhances the Growl.

Next is your fingers, calluses or leathery finger tips are a good thing here.

I hope this is what you were seeking to learn.

[redbeardred]

monster's roar!!! that's a cool sound image.

and double stops are a great sound. i've noticed that semi acostic basses 'pronounce' double stops better. i do the same thing when i try out a bass--if there's no 'magic' when you play a double stop then move onto the next bass.

[redbeardred]

okay,
after some major surgery and taking it in for a truss rod/intonation ajustment she's up and running.

this time i tried rotosounds tru 88 nylon wounds black nylon wounds strings. i think these are better then the labella's black nylon...more tension and they feel denser under my fingers. one problem i ran into is grounding, cause there's nylon covering the strings i was getting some noise and even radio waves. so i took an old roundwound, cut it, solded one end to a screw on the jazz plate and ran the other end under my thumbrest. problem solved!

i put my foam mute back in and head out to band practice.

i'm really really happy i went active and 68's expertise has been great.

[redbeardred]

one more time. BLACK NYLON WOUND!!!

[FretLessSince68]

Your observation that black Teflon tape wound strings insulate you from the bridge ground is a valid point.

Good grounding helps to minimize EMI (Electromagnetic Interference).

Another suggestion would be to copper foil line your control cavity, control cavity cover, P/U routes, and wire routes. Upgrade any internal wires/cables that need shielding. If you have a pickguard/scratch plate/P/U cover, foil line that too and make sure it is grounded. Be sure to ground all foil lined areas. Avoid ground loops.

If you still get EMI, plug it in and reproduce the EMI situation. Now rotate your body and the bass to see if the EMI is being picked up directionally by the P/Us. If the EMI gets worse in a certain orientation then it may be the actual P/Us that are the culprit.

If it is the P/Us receiving EMI it may be possible to remove the P/U covers (if removable) and foil line them too. Of course this additional foil would need a good ground.

If done properly you should not need to ground the thumb rest.